This is shit. Welcome to Kinja case study.

"nippon" (nipponbanzai) 10/23/2013 at 15:31 • Filed to: Kinja, Kinja Help

13

34

With latest changes to our beloved child, we face some serious problems around here.

Kinja is a long-time troublemaker, but this is just bad. It was bad before but its worse now. Much worse. We want bad back again.
On 18th October this pile of utter crap that was allegedly made by Ray Charles and his friend Stevie Wonder, arrived to Oppo. And it's painful to watch.

Here is the main problem. Oppo is sort of an user generated blog, forum actually. It's content(text) should go around the media(images/videos). NOT the other way around.
This kind of layout is not made for this type of page. Never, ever will it work.

Let's take this for an example, Sparf shares some nice Z31 goodies, or that dude with awesome NSFW posts makes a sweet ladies dump, they add the images and write some one-liner just so it's not text-empty.
What we get? A small thumb image that uses 90's styling, one sentence and thats it.
What we should be getting? Wide preview/cover image, to make that user contributed content stand out.

If we compare that to Jalopnik, which is a blog. You know that kind of stuff that has editors and writers BUT SOMETIMES they share SOME user contribution. Thats where current Kinja design sort-of-works.
Why? Because we want to read those articles and we want to have a discussion about them. That's where textual content should stand out. That's the place where user wants to read your content and not just watch your media and comment it.

Moving on to design and layout itself.

It Ray and Stevie made this, okay i get it. But actual designer/web developer made this. And that's....sad.

First, header. You made nice little icons there and you failed. Plus that "follow/unfollow" icon makes no sense at all. And then the most important button, "Compose" you put aaaaaaaaaaaaaall the way on the other side. Just far enough for any user to not see it or forget where it is.

Sidebar. Who the hell decided to have that? Okay, "Top Stories" are sweet. But it ruins the main section where content goes. It completely throws the focus off from the actual content.
Again, on a blog like Jalopnik or any other Gawker main site that's okay. Here, not so much.

Various issues.
This is where it hurts the most. You completely fucked up the code. I don't even know what in the name of god where you doing to make something plain and simple as Foundation framework this complicated and shitty.
Wrong margins, padding's, ugly border, wrong type settings, well everything we see is coded badly so far.
Sidebar container is too wide, covers the main container where content goes. Which causes problems where it comes to headline text in bigger articles.

Mobile. Okay this was either luck or someone with eyes made it. Kinja actually works on mobile and anything that's not wider than 600px. No problems there.

So, to tl;dr this.
We need old format/layout back(pre 18th Oct.) on sub-blogs/sites like Oppo because its purely user contributed. And this kind of layout misses the point.

Gawker people, read this and make some good use out of it. Me and a lot of other people don't use Oppo or Kinja at all since you did this. It doesn't work. And your genius plan to earn money from comments is falling apart.

I will repost this until we get some input on this.
If such thing never happens, we should all go USA blackout style on Oppo and not post for a day or so.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > nippon 10/23/2013 at 15:33

4

In before you get called an idiot for complaining about something clearly, truly awful.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > nippon 10/23/2013 at 15:33

0

I've been posting all day without errors, I'll take it.

nippon > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney 10/23/2013 at 15:34

1

Thanks, appreciate it!

nippon > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 10/23/2013 at 15:35

0

Don't say that twice...

dinobot666 > nippon 10/23/2013 at 15:37

0

Ray Wert used to give TTAC grief about tracking and kerning on image macros that TTAC would use from time to time. Wonder what Ray thinks of the new Kinja layout anyway.

PanchoVilleneuve ST > nippon 10/23/2013 at 15:37

2

My favorite is when I go to attach a picture and I have to scroll all over the fucking place to find where the image dialog box decided to pop up at.

Dwhite - Powered by Caffeine, Daft Punk, and Corgis > nippon 10/23/2013 at 15:38

1

Thank you for at least giving a detailed of what bothers you. Better than what most of us can do.

lepie > nippon 10/23/2013 at 15:38

1

Mr. Author-san,

You have my support and respect.

Thank you.

CalzoneGolem > nippon 10/23/2013 at 15:39

0

DM; HS

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > nippon 10/23/2013 at 15:43

1

lol, don't worry, I knocked on wood.

Takuro Spirit > nippon 10/23/2013 at 15:44

6

It's been fine for me all.... shit.

Lets Just Drive > dinobot666 10/23/2013 at 15:45

0

That as long as it doesn't impact his portfolio, why should he care?

Gamecat235 > nippon 10/23/2013 at 15:45

7

One : Tag this "Kinja Help" and wait for someone from the Gawker help team to respond to you.

Two : If you repost this regularly, I will be having some words with you. They will not necessarily be kind. At least not after the second repost.

Three : Thank you for the feedback, remember that there are teams of people who work on this, and that they can, and do, see your feedback and comments. Please remember that you are providing feedback to individuals.

Four : In order to completely move forward and affect changes Kinja wide, a unified platform is needed. As I understand it, all blogs will move to the current form factor, including individual blogs.

Five : some of what you are reporting are known issues / errors which are going to be resolved. Some are part of an ongoing evolution.

Also, before you ask, no, I don't work for Gawker, and I am not trying to either. But I do have faith in the people that keep the site running and listen to our feedback.

Lets Just Drive > nippon 10/23/2013 at 15:47

5

I agree, and I don't mean to belittle your concise rant but I've got to do this...

area man > nippon 10/23/2013 at 15:52

2

The tiny images are the worst fucking thing about it. Who thought that would be a good idea?

area man > Gamecat235 10/23/2013 at 16:01

0

In my experience, their version of "seeing my feedback" via email was just that - seeing it, sending a cheery form reply, and then doing nothing. I know this is par for the course for most businesses, but still...

Also, I think you're looking at this situation through rose-colored glasses. Yes, people run Kinja, and those people rely on us participating for it to succeed and thus ostensibly have a reason to care about our happiness. But Oppo is a small part of the Kinja universe, and unfortunately our needs are coming increasingly at odds with what the overlords have decided the system needs to succeed.

We like large images, but on other sites they're not as important and unnecessarily tax people's bandwith. We like simplicity, but since their goal is to build everything in the same structure, we're going to have to learn to deal with a layout that's designed to incorporate ads and may not function as well without them.

So, while I understand why you're defending the system, let's not get crazy. Their mission is not beyond reproach.

Hermann > CalzoneGolem 10/23/2013 at 16:06

0

Does Matt; Hardibro Save?

CalzoneGolem > Hermann 10/23/2013 at 16:08

0

You got it.

Gamecat235 > area man 10/23/2013 at 16:10

1

I can personally speak to the helpfulness of the Kinja help team and their responsiveness. While timeframes are not always ideal, they do listen, and respond. And when possible, explain why, or why not something will/won't be resolved.

Also, the one constant of gawker's platform is that there are no constants. At all. Period. Full stop. Everything evolves and changes, nothing is held back.

I never said that they were beyond reproach, I asked that we remember we are providing feedback to actual people. Not a nameless, faceless entity. They are human, errors will occur. Feedback is necessary. Just be mindful of the method.

Hermann > nippon 10/23/2013 at 16:14

1

I think of Oppo & Kinja like a Dually F250 driving through London during rush hour. Or a Audi A1 driving in the desert.

BrtStlnd > Gamecat235 10/23/2013 at 16:15

2

IT'S SO MUCH MORE FUN TO JUST SAY IT'S SHIT THOUGH

Gamecat235 > BrtStlnd 10/23/2013 at 16:18

0

INTERNATIONAL CAPS LOCK DAY WAS YESTERDAY OR MONDAY!

area man > Gamecat235 10/23/2013 at 16:20

1

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that Gawker Media loves to promote how much they rely on users for content, and how great it is to be able to share your work with a such a wide array of audiences, when in reality we are simply little pawns. They send down redesigns from on high, with almost no warning (exluding this time), and leave us to deal with the aftermath and figure out how to keep pumping out that sweet, sweet content. Also, I think it's pretty obvious that this latest redesign was done in order to create more viable ad spaces, which always kind of grinds my gears a little.

If page views drop precipitously, or something is truly broken, then yeah, it'll get fixed - but we're not ever going to have say over little-yet-important things like margins, sidebars, and button placement. I just think it's a little silly of them not to recognize the cognitive dissonance of promoting a reader-driven article and commenting system, and then continue to roll out redesigns with almost no reader input beforehand.

Ernie @ Kinja > area man 10/23/2013 at 16:48

0

We're not "doing nothing" with your feedback, I can assure you that much.

Slave2anMG > Gamecat235 10/23/2013 at 17:04

2

"In order to completely move forward and affect changes Kinja wide, a unified platform is needed."

I don't shoot messengers, you included, but I keep seeing this "needed" repeated. But I do not recall anybody saying exactly *why* a unified platform is needed to move forward. What's meant by 'forward'? A place to harvest stories for FP? All the explanations I've seen thus far have yet to persuade me that the new 'features' are not items that could have rolled into the pre 10-18 Oppo format.

I'm going to repeat my primary issues with the post 10-18 format - teeny tiny photos and a busy cramped layout that's just plain hard on middle aged eyes. I installed the Oppo Fix which spreads the format back out and embiggens the photos to legibility. It also compresses the 'top stories' column on the left side which suits me fine as I've never place any faith in any algorithm that claims to devine what's important to me. Put "Top Stories" in a pull down where it's out of the way and give us back the space for pictures.

Gawker has an active subculture community over here which is what makes Oppo what it is...and without that community there's going to be a dearth of material to harvest for the FP. And that's not going forward in my estimation.

Ernie - who I think must have the patience of Job - notes that our feedback is heard. I appreciate that. I hope that those listening will roll back or modify some of the changes to give back to the Opponaut community what the majority of regulars seem to want.

Ernie @ Kinja > nippon 10/23/2013 at 17:05

3

We'll soon be making some changes to the way front page image display is handled. Right now, if an admin recommends a post, the header image will enlarge provided it is >=640px. In the next few weeks, we'll be introducing some things that will make image heavy blogs very happy. Asking for your patience here, and your willingness to work through the bugs when they arise.

I can't really comment on your design griefs, because try as I might, I'm not a designer. This would be a good time to mention that we're hiring front-end engineers , in case any of the Opponauts would like to be involved in the design process. That would be pretty rad, actually.

I appreciate the well thought out feedback, it makes the task of compiling what people dislike much easier. Let me know if you have any additional thoughts.

Gamecat235 > Slave2anMG 10/23/2013 at 17:13

1

Re: the unified platform explanation. This is actually an assumption on my part, based on observations I have made in past rollouts as well as the announcements for this one. There have been some features which have been held back because they interfere with other functionality and cause bugs when there are different versions of Kinja running simultaneously. Remember that Oppo is not an island, but is interconnected to every other Kinja entity. The ability to crosspost, share and bring content from one area to another requires communication. I am assuming that this holds true here as well based on the language that both Lauren and Ernie have used regarding certain features not being available, or certain bugs not being resolved, until the rollout is complete.

If I'm wrong, I will be the first to admit it.

I actually expect that we may eventually get larger pictures back, I miss them too. Of everything, that is the one feature which bugs me the most about the current iteration. Layout has never been constant, so I'm just rolling with the punches here.

My primary point here is that feedback is welcome, encouraged even. But to please phrase it in a way which is respectful to the people who will read it, and decide to act on it.

area man > Ernie @ Kinja 10/23/2013 at 17:20

0

That may be, but the proof is in the pudding. For example, it's been a universal complaint on this site and Jalopnik that the pictures are too small for a topic as visual as cars. Even if nothing is going to be done about that (as I assume is the case), looking for someone to post something along the lines of "Yes, we hear you on the images, it's a bummer, but we can/can't do something about it for X, Y, and Z reasons" isn't asking a lot.

Again, I'm sure that the vast majority of complaints about redesigns (this one and ones past) stem from people feeling helpless - it always feels like "Nick Denton has decreed that you are going to like this, whether or not you can wrap your little brain around it right now, so stop complaining." Change is never well-received, but a little more communication can go a long way.

The funny part is, he's usually right. I was not a fan of the previous redesign at first, but I soon grew to love the big images and simple layout. In this case, unfortunately, there is no "getting used" to having to squint at tiny, tiny images.

Ernie @ Kinja > area man 10/23/2013 at 17:34

1

I've given that type of response on a few occasions. Oppo is a huge place and I expect not the entire community sees my posts. But as you can see in my response to the OP, we do hear you on the images and we are addressing it.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

I agree that communication has not been a strong point. That's another thing that we hear you on and we're trying to get better at. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as it sounds, but we'll get there. If changing a habit were as easy as snapping fingers, we'd live in a perfect world. Until we get there, I just ask for a little patience and a lot of thoughtful feedback.

area man > Ernie @ Kinja 10/23/2013 at 18:01

1

My mistake, I didn't see your other responses. That said, maybe commenting on individual complaints isn't the best way to let the community at large know you're aware of something...

Here's one suggestion, although I'm not sure if the feature has been lost in the redesign - you guys (someone?) added that little sticky note at the top of Oppo for all of last week reminding us of the impending changes. Why not use that space for quick little "WE HEAR YOU ON XYZ" notes or soliciting feedback on specific parts of the site?

I think that Kinja has the potential to be really, really awesome and you guys are running with some excellent ideas. Communication probably the weakest link in the whole system.

Ernie @ Kinja > area man 10/23/2013 at 18:15

1

That said, maybe commenting on individual complaints isn't the best way to let the community at large know you're aware of something...

you guys (someone?) added that little sticky note at the top of Oppo for all of last week reminding us of the impending changes.

Agreed. That banner is something I'd love to use for more than just critical site issues, and hope to be able to do so in the near future.

Kailand09 > nippon 10/23/2013 at 18:36

0

Totally agree.

Haven't they ever heard of testing environments? Shit...

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > nippon 10/23/2013 at 19:40

0

Sadly, this new format doesn't work at my school. They have WIndows 7 PCs, but we are using IE 8! (I actually had my tech teacher put in a request for Chrome on my account since they can do that if you have a valid reason).

Yes, I shouldn't be on Oppo during school. But I do. They need to work on making it more backwards compatible.

DEFTONE1 > nippon 05/03/2014 at 09:10

0

So so true. Ever since Kinja has been controlling this place it's become a Trolls paradise. It's embarrassing. It used to be that Endgadget was the way to go for Trolls but now it's Giz and anything controlled by Kinja. Allowing Burner accounts just proves that it's about the clicks.